ittybittytatertot:

I don’t think adding nonbinary to Victorian’s gender system would’ve fixed their weird sexism. If anything I think it would’ve made them weirder and sexismier

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ittybittytatertot:

Someone needs to write a satirical etiquette book in the style of a Victorian with rules for Ladies, Gentlemen, and Honorables in Polite Society.

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mrfandomwars:

Oh please someone do this

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ittybittytatertot:

It would go something like

Of course, fashionable Honorables may be consternated by the proper open collar blouses as there is no way to tie a bow or cravat around it. In such cases a bow may be worn upon the top hat. Or a slim ribbon may be tied around the bare neck, however, given the salacious reputation some hold for such an accessory, that is best left to married Honorables.

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ittybittytatertot:

YES. the way this hasn’t left my mind….Like okay they’re still Victorians. They’re still sexist and homophobic. My thought for this alternate history is third gender people are expected to only marry into already married couples. And they’d probably throw in a lot of Christian Holy Trinity and Mary Joseph God imagery to religiously validate triads.

Or three people (of all different genders of course bc again. They’re Victorian) could marry all at once but the courting situation would be a nightmare.

My question is,,, would Honorables have a dowry?

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bemusedlybespectacled:

First thought: coverture. Coverture is the legal idea that a married couple is one entity, with the wife not having an actual legal identity of her own. This is why there’s the old-fashioned convention of women taking on their husband’s entire name (e.g. “Mrs. Robert Smith”), why men could control any inheritance or money their wives had, and also the origin of some now-obsolete laws (like making it impossible for a wife to sue her husband for damages, because it’s as if she was suing herself).

This is why it was so important for women to marry well: even if you worked as a married woman (and many women did), your money wasn’t actually yours. It’s one thing to have to live with a drunk asshole; it’s worse to have that drunk asshole be the sole person who decides if that paycheck goes towards rent or more booze.

So, having a trinity/three parts of one whole entity would totally fit Victorian ideas of coverture. I think you’d still have it be men > everyone else, because they’d expect some kind of hierarchy, and even within the Trinity, God is still the leader.

Second thought: separate spheres. The Victorian era was very heavily focused on men being involved in the “dirty” business of work/politics/etc., and women being more morally pure and better suited to the domestic sphere (the whole “angel of the house” thing). Obviously this wasn’t actually or practically true a lot of the time, but it was the aspired-to standard, the thing you’d measure people against to say if they were acting appropriately as members of their gender or not.

So you’d need a third sphere for Honorables to inhabit that is completely separate from the work/domestic dichotomy, or create an entirely different three-way dichotomy. Basically, you’d need a thing to point to, like “X is very ladylike” or “Y is not manly,” but for Honorables.

So, extrapolating:

• You’d still have “Mr. and Mrs. Robert Smith,” it’d just be, “Mr., Mrs., and Mx. Robert Smith” (differentiating by title, not by first name). I could actually see there being a different title for unmarried vs. married Honorables, like Master vs. Mister or Miss vs. Madam/Missus. Mix vs. Max, maybe?
• I think Honorables would definitely need to have some kind of dowry. It actually might be even more necessary, because unless the guy is insanely wealthy on his own, you’re going to need enough money to support three people, not just two.
• I’m having trouble coming up with a third sphere, but whatever that third sphere was, you’d need to heavily police it. “You can’t do X, that’s for Honorables” has to be part of the culture. And you’d need to police it with as much weird pseudoscientific and/or religious justification as possible. Like, you need “women’s brains physically can’t handle the strain of learning math” but to explain why Honorables can’t swim, or whatever.

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startedwellthatsentence:

Non-leadership admin, teaching, and academia as the third sphere.

The idea of who should be in charge of household accounting has always waffled between a man’s job and a woman’s job. Is teaching the realm of governesses and school mistresses or lecturers and professors. Academics are too weak and frail to be masculine but too logical and rigorous to be feminine.

Clerks and accountants and secretaries and teachers and scholars.

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lwoorl:

I can see it becoming a Mind (Honorable) Heart (Woman) Soul (Man) kind of separation, all three together making up the body. Women are suited for feelings, nurturing, caring. Honorables are suited for the pursue of pure knowledge, but lack the Will to put it to any practical use. Finally men are the one leading force that brings all the parts together and leads it into an action.

Thus, men, even if they’re unqualified on whatever area of knowledge they’re dealing with, and even if they have no understanding of their or other people’s feelings whatsoever, still possess an inherent and intangible quality that makes them the only part truly suited for decision making.

Woman: Caretaker

Honorable: Assistant/Advisor

Men: Leader

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Tags:

#gender #story ideas I will never write #sexism cw #this post was queued because my to-reblog list is too long and I didn’t want to dump it on you all at once